Can Women Preach? Does God allow it?

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Permalink Reply by Richard Galvatron3000 Smith III on December 5, 2009 at 9:23am

Preaching is not the issue to my knowledge, Pastoring or being in a role over a man within the Body/Church seems to be. We have taking text out of context so much and redefine terms that we fail to make arguments that rebuke the proper issues. Also, within her video she failed to mentioned (I don't know how) that Priscilla was married to Aquinas, wonder why? She had a husband, she was not doing anything alone as she has suggested yet wonders why men can't see how the Bible doesn't support women "Pastors" and she can't seem to acknowledge the woman she chose as a married woman working alongside her husband.

Pastor: Undershepard, a person having spiritual care of a number of persons.

Preacher: One who proclaims

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Permalink Reply by Charles on December 9, 2009 at 11:50am

Can A Women Preach/Pastor? Of course? This is 2009 not 1809. I would hope that the Christian church has moved past the blatant sexism of yesterday. If God can call a man to minister the word or pastor a church why wouldn't he call a woman who is just as capable of doing the job?

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Permalink Reply by Alex A on December 12, 2009 at 9:52pm

Have you ever read the second epistle of John? Verse 1 states "The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth". Go ahead and read the entire book, it is not long. The Letter was written to a woman preacher, possibly a woman pastor. That should settle the preacher portion. If not there is more... Matthew 3:9- "And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham." Many times in both the New and Old Testaments it has been written that those who will not heed the call will be replaced by someone who will (please see Exodus 32:9-10, Esther 4:14, Romans 9:25-26 and Romans 10:20-21). Besides, there is no gender in the Spirit, only in the natural. Matthew 22:29-30 Jesus answered and said unto them, "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. (30) For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."

Too often, members of the Body of Christ become too concerened with preaching and teaching being done by women and not facing the fact that many men of the church act like "spiritual women", spinelessly abdicating resonsibility for their leadership positions, if they even come to church at all. Some complain about females in leadership while never taking any initiative to preach, teach, lead, or even just worship. 1 Timothy speaks about "women" being silent during services and not being allowed to preach. This includes ANYONE regardless of gender who only backbite, criticize, gossip (men do it too), complain, distract, hinder, and undermine any efforts to promote the Kingdom, period. God is no respector of persons, all are equal in Him. In the time period and culture of that era and location, the women of that church were disrupting services and hindering God's word, so Paul said something. The office of apostle exisits to bring order, not to be nice, and that is what he did. He brought order to the Ephesus church, he was not setting a precedent of spiritually devaluing women. Woman were created as a helpmate to man, even if that means she has to teach, pray for, and even care for man. After all, most of us respect and learned from our mothers, didn't we? For further reading, check out the book of Judith, it is in the Hebrew canon, it was cut out of the KJV due to politics (another issue for another time). It talks about a Holy jewish woman who had to save her city because the men were to scared to do anything.

P.S.: I do not normally post replies,but I have read many all over the internet. Do not reply unless you have actual scripture and sound doctrine. I will not respond to anything petty or flat out ignorant.

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Permalink Reply by Richard Galvatron3000 Smith III on December 14, 2009 at 10:23pm

Have you ever read the second epistle of John? Verse 1 states "The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth". Go ahead and read the entire book, it is not long. The Letter was written to a woman preacher, possibly a woman pastor. That should settle the preacher portion.

Incorrect that letter is from John the Elder to a woman and her children. This is old English but John is basically introducing himself as the elder to this unnamed woman.

The Matthew reference you use is inappropriate because it's not dealing with the topic at hand in anyway. It would be hard to use scripture to justify women PASTORS or any position of leadership within the assembly outside of teaching children or other women because there are (to my knowledge) none that support women in these roles just as a woman in a marriage is not in a role of leadership outside of having authority over the kids. Woman are valuable to the kingdom of God but few want the role that was ORDAINED by GOD for them to fill. Helping to nurture the children, being a help meet, being submissive etc. The Church is using the world as a template for what goes on in Church structure and order and that should be enough to sound the alarm. Why are women trying to fill a role God never called them too and neglect the role God called them too? God didn't call for woman to provide for men but for man to provide for a woman. Why do we shone our God given assignments? Are we that rebellious that we no longer wish to obey the Word that we try to justify our sin without scripture to even support that.

Women can preach the gospel to those they come into contact with everyday and should teach other women and children but in the Church assembly they should sit down and be submitted to God's ordained order. I'm only talking Church structure, internet and other non assembly gathering do not apply unless scripture supports otherwise.

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Permalink Reply by alredo martinez on March 23, 2010 at 7:45pm

You are correct on your answer brother Alex. I don't necessarily agree with your tone though. Jesus likes when we ask questions and help each other on things we are not sure about or confused. We should take in consideration on how we say things on answering these other questions. Make sure they are answered with love and understanding and not trying to insult or belittle someone that just needs a loving answer, God is Love. Satan is Hate. 1PETER 1:15-16. BUT JUST AS HE WHO CALLED YOU IS HOLY, SO BE HOLY IN ALL YOU DO; FOR IT IS WRITTEN: "BE HOLY, BECAUSE I AM HOLY." So brother Alex I don't say you are wrong with your answer. But I just ask, that you answer them with love and compassion, because the very elect could be reading them. God Bless You and Your Family.

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Permalink Reply by yshwa4life on December 16, 2009 at 6:52am

No ill but maybe we should ask the question, "What's your role as it pertains to creation?"

Just because it's 2009 doesn't mean we should be messing with the created order..if it offends you good, the Word of God is supposed to offend us not tickle our ears. The role of Pastor/teacher is the highest calling on the planet..and it's meant to be filled by a man..no mystery there unless you don't mind rebellion. Is it an essential pertaining to salvation? No. Is our culture a little different than theirs? Sure. However the roles of men n women as created beings haven't changed no matter how bad some would want them to or how long it's been since the Apostle Paul wrote that letter to Timothy. In fact we need even more clarity nowadays for the younger ones..ya may have to go against popular culture though. :shocked:

What happened to teaching children? Is that just meant for the dreaded "sally homemaker" lady n "blondes" now? It's an important calling isn't it? Ladies..please, we desperately need you to recapture what's been lost..don't buy into the hype..don't be ashamed of who you are.

What you do already is EXTREMELY important (if yer focused)!

1 Timothy 2:12
I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly

Matthew Henrys Commentary
According to St. Paul, women are not allowed to be public teachers in the church; for teaching is an office of authority. But good women may and ought to teach their children at home the principles of true religion. Also, women must not think themselves excused from learning what is necessary to salvation, though they must not usurp authority. As woman was last in the creation, which is one reason for her subjection, so she was first in the transgression. But there is a word of comfort; that those who continue in sobriety, shall be saved in child-bearing, or with child-bearing, by the Messiah, who was born of a woman. And the especial sorrow to which the female sex is subject, should cause men to exercise their authority with much gentleness, tenderness, and affection.

grace n peace
-yshwa4life


Everybody now

:breaks out into song:

"Anything you can do i can do better"

:D

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Permalink Reply by Richard Galvatron3000 Smith III on March 22, 2010 at 8:49pm

Where did rank come from in the Church? Jesus said we are not to lord it over our brothers as the world does, we are all brothers and sisters. There is no rank. It's all under Christ. We are all under Christ, there is no one that comes between us and Christ. Sure, we respect the elders who happen to be those who have been on the faith longer and we listen to them as they direct us in the WORD, not blindly.

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Permalink Reply by alredo martinez on March 23, 2010 at 8:06pm

You are correct brother Clark, I am a man that has been elected and the Lord talks to me at least once a week. I have my testimony on viklife. But as far as women pastors, if they too have been called by God then I dont see any problem with it. If God is talking to them too,well then we just have to let them do the work. But we have to test these women to see if they are from God. That's what the Lord wants us to do. Then they will know if they are of God or not. But we are living in the last days and we are going to need all the help we can get and if it is according to God's will ,so be it. Just like gospel rap, it is evolving rapidly with 116 clique,cross movement, Lunie 3:80, and new upcoming Christian artists. To my knowledge, this is a method God is using to minister to younger and even older generations. Music tends to affect your spiritual senses, and Satan's been using this method a long time now to deceive many from the truth. But as for me, I don't do what I want anymore, I wait and see what the Lord is asking of me. He's the one that told me come on this site and help people on understanding the truth. Thank You , Brother Clark,God Bless You and Your Family.

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Permalink Reply by Jahdiel on December 16, 2009 at 4:39pm

Of Course they can preach, and teach and everything men can do. As far as leading and shepherding a Church, God ordains men to stand up and Lead the people of God. Can a married woman be the Head of the house? No because God has order in the home and in church. How confusing would that be to children, if dad is head of the home, then at church mommy is leading daddy? theres one way, thats Gods way.

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Permalink Reply by alredo martinez on March 23, 2010 at 8:28pm

Brother Jahdeil, God's has elect and we don't know who they are unless we test their spirits. God's mind doesnt work like ours. He has a much higher understanding than we do. Who's to say God didn't elect them? We are living in the last days, basically I don't have problem with it, if they were sent from God and is communicating with them. All we have to do is test the spirit to see if they are of God or Not. TITUS 2:1:4. YOU MUST TEACH WHAT IS I ACCORD WITH SOUND DOCTRINE. TEACH THE OLDER MEN TO BE TEMPERATE, WORTHY OF RESPECT, SELF-CONTROLLED, AND SOUND IN FAITH, IN LOVE AND IN ENDURANCE. LIKEWISE, TEACH THE OLDER WOMEN TO BE REVERENT IN THE WAY THEY LIVE, NOT TO BE SLANDERERS OR ADDICTED TO MUCH WINE, BUT TO TEACH WHAT IS GOOD. THEN THEY CAN TRAIN THE YOUNGER WOMEN TO LOVE THEIR HUSBANDS AND CHILDREN, TO BE SELF-CONTROLLED AND PURE, TO BE BUSY AT HOME, TO BE KIND, AND TO BE SUBJECT OT THEIR HUSBANDS, THAT NO ONE WILL MALIGN THE WORD OF GOD.

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Permalink Reply by Alex A on December 19, 2009 at 5:54pm

Whose children was John refering to in his first epistle? That was old english too, right?

Here is a better scripture for Matthew 3:9.

Galations 3:26-28
(26) For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. (27) For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. (28) There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

There is no gender in the Spirit. God is a Spirit, so when He created us in His image it was Spiritual. God is so big that when He created us in His image He had to put it into two physical genders.

Genesis 1:26-27
(26) And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. (27) So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.

But wait a minute, Alex, what about Genesis 2?
Yes, woman came from man's rib, therefore man is to cover woman and woman is to submit to her husband. However, God is the head of man and if God gives woman a word to give to man, who is man to reject it. After all, God will confirm everything He has given.

1 Corinthians 11:8-12
(8) For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. (9) Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. (10) For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. (11) Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. (12) For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.


Here, let me light a fire:

1 Corinthians 1:27-29
(27) But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; (28) And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: (29) That no flesh should glory in His presence.

Here it is again in the NIV:
(27) But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. (28) He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, (29) so that no one may boast before Him.

If God sent a word through a female preacher or pastor that pierced your heart, would you still reject it due to the gender of the speaker? Are we really so "traditional" (religious) that we can't accept the Word of God just because it comes from source that doesn't fit our norm? Are we really "like that", straining the gnat out of the milk but swallowing the whole cow? Don't women have the Holy Spirit in them as well? The Lord humbles "superior" people that put limits on God, and He will do it through many means including women preachers, teachers, and pastors. Oh wait, It was stated that women should only teach and preach to children.
Guess what:

Matthew 18:1-4
(1) At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? (2) And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, (3) And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. (4) Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

How is it that women can only teach other women and children, but the Word says we must humble ourselves like children to enter the Kingdom. We judge by appearances but God judges justly. Even the very appearance of the servants He sends is for a purpose. Let God be true, and every man a liar.
By the way, I am a married man with children.

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Permalink Reply by yshwa4life on December 20, 2009 at 8:41am

you're using *eisegesis..reading scripture based on your experience/bias rather than letting scripture interpret itself through the actual meaning and/or historicity of the text .

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v24/i3/eisegesis.asp
http://www.carm.org/dictionary-theology/e-f/eisegesis


Here these guys love to use this type of study..as do most liberals.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibc4.htm

..again the role of pastor/teacher is meant exclusively for a man...anything else is plain hogwash according to scripture and to the created order. God has His reasons complain to Him about it..lol.

As far as receiving advice or spiritual direction from a woman and your alluding to the word "traditional", why would you go to that extreme? Because you've bought into the hype, anyone can and should give wise counsel if they know their bible that's a given. We're talking about the role of Pastor'teacher being exclusively designed for a man..just as some things men can't do as effectively as women the same holds true for the ladies. That type of leadership takes objective reasoning as opposed to "feelings", men are better at that.

(sorry ladies)

Much of this argument has to do with the problem of absent fathers in so many homes..and/or willy nilly dads with no character..thinking manhood to be a bit more..er..feminine. Masculinity is not a crime nor is it a disease that needs to be eradicated..lol. These kids need their dads early on and all the way through but nobody wants to say it because they don't know how to without offending people..


By the way i'm married with children as well, have been for twenty years now..my wife is in full agreement and wouldn't have it any other way. i guess she's just to old fashioned for all this important stuff; but she sure has been a great Mom and wife.

Our boys know what to look for in a woman for sure, gentle but strong, striving to be like that proverbs 31 woman and my daughter knows what to look for in a man, a servant leader who loves his wife and family like Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it. ;)

http://www.proverbs31woman.com/

There's a lot of confusion surrounding this whole topic..why?

..the breakdown of the family, the Standard has been convoluted and marred. One man, one woman, for life is to much to expect nowadays so it's a free-for-all. Everybody is comin up with their own versions of what a family looks like and how it's supposed ta roll. Since IT is the foundational building block of society than it's no wonder the church is in such turmoil.

Bottom line? Know your role..and be content with what God has given you, that includes all of us.

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